omo66 wrote on Thursday, May 05, 2011:
Is it possible to replace the 2 vertical frames with unlimited dynamic tabs on screen-top?
The reason for this need is that all modern LCD monitors are wide with small height.
It is easy to expand horizontally on a wide screen and open multiple patients in multiple tabs.
aethelwulffe wrote on Friday, May 06, 2011:
I second that!!!!
aethelwulffe wrote on Friday, May 06, 2011:
Actually, we have two horizontal frames right now, a vertical sidebar, and only the ability to have one patient open at a time unless you have two sessions of the emr open in two browser windows.
What we could use the ability to split screen Vertical vs. Horizontal, and NOT a setting in Globals! While we are at it, put the navbar style as a session-controlled variable instead of a global as well!
Re-arranging the split-screen for side-by-side would significantly improve user functionality in the current era of “everything at the store is wide-screen 16*9 in case you wanna watch IMAX flicks on your computer”.
-asked everyone, and we have collectively 35 votes for vertical split side-by-side views…configurable. 
omo66 wrote on Friday, May 06, 2011:
Great. I am looking forward for the vertical split side-by-side option.
Thanks.
aethelwulffe wrote on Friday, May 06, 2011:
Uh, I didn’t say that >I< can get that done…I am just putting in a vote! 'course, I went begging for this a long time ago, but Art’s Foundation for Pet Projects is a little low on funds right now, so I couldn’t get much interest… :) It can’t take very much formatting change to handle this though…
jcahn2 wrote on Friday, May 06, 2011:
Ahoy om66
Perhaps your docs are clever enough to deal with two patients at the same time. At my age, one at a time does it. I would instead vote to use the lateral real estate to display more detail about the patient sitting in front of me. For instance a more detailed PMHx, Meds list, and Problem list on one side at the same time that I am documenting the current visit on the other. Here is my previous rant:
https://sourceforge.net/projects/openemr/forums/forum/202504/topic/4434747
I suspect many folks are turning off the bottom screen as the next step after logging in.
Jack Cahn MR
(Multitasking Retard)
mike-h30 wrote on Friday, May 06, 2011:
I suspect many folks are turning off the bottom screen as the next step after logging in.
Your suspicion is correct! After Tony mentioned that he keeps the bottom frame de-activated, I found that it works better in my work flow as well. I immediately turn off bottom screen after logging in. I would de-activate it by default but I have a couple users that still prefer to work with it.
-Mike
whimmel wrote on Friday, May 06, 2011:
Another option is to rotate your monitor(s) the correct way for the work you’re doing.
(Please ignore my messy desk) http://whichf.in/gerVPiefb.jpg
aethelwulffe wrote on Friday, May 06, 2011:
K.I.S.S. Hunh?
You rock whimmel.
Unfortunately, It’s hard to do that on a wide-screen lap-top, which is the problem that most of our in-the-field counselors face. Truth is, even with a normal aspect ratio (or rather traditional 4:3) monitor, viewing stuff side-by-side is far more useful, especially when viewing a document while transcribing a note.
On the multi-tasking issue…well all humans are retards. My wife is a workaholic-multitasking-masochist. She THINKS she can be hitting keys on the keyboard, looking up websites on her phone, and still make sense when she talks, but it is far from true. In that situation, talking is easier than listening, and babbling (havering) is easier than being concise. The results are not very…efficient.
mukoya wrote on Friday, May 06, 2011:
I hereby put in my vote for the vertical split, at least temporarily. This for me would be largely for efficient use of space for each open file as opposed to opening multiple patient files. With the prevalent 16:9 monitors, one has to do a lot of scrolling with the horizontal split (Unless of course the screen is gigantic with a matching good resolution).
Was initially excited about the idea of disabling either top or bottom pane until I discovered that it is not that useful for someone who routinely needs both panes. If bottom is disabled, pages configured to display at the bottom won’t display until it is enabled. Then if you need whole screen, you now disable top pane etc. It would be better to have “One Pane Mode” where the last link clicked is displayed regardless.
That said, for a long term solution, i think we need to implement Jcahn’s Idea (or some variant of it) to improve the doctor patient interaction and consolidate all that the doctor needs during an encounter to be easily accessible and reflect doctor’s flow of thought.
In my view, we could start with “One Pane Mode” then Vertical Split, then a comprehensive GUI rearrangement as proposed by Jcahn. I am not a coder so I am not certain what amount of work is needed but my suggestion above assumes that it is easier to implement the first than the last bit. We could also merge these three components.
Mukoya.
whimmel wrote on Friday, May 06, 2011:
A quick change you can try which seems to work is editing interface/main/main_screen.php
<?php if (empty($GLOBALS['athletic_team'])) { ?>
<frameset cols='60%,*' id='fsright' bordercolor='#999999' frameborder='1'>
<?php } else { ?>
<frameset rows='100%,*' id='fsright' bordercolor='#999999' frameborder='1'>
I changed the “rows” to “cols” in the first (non-athletic) frameset. To do it right, you’d want to change the labels in the left_nav to say left and right instead of top and bottom, but you can see how it looks on a wide display. I’d do a screenshot but my portrait displays won’t make much sense now.
blankev wrote on Friday, May 06, 2011:
My solution would be:
If you want to see 2 clients during the same session of practice on your monitor, just open 2 windows with the same browser. With ALT-Tab it is easy to change windows, Make them vertical or horizontal style, and show them next to each other by reducing the complete screen to part of the screen, for example half half the screen, overlapping or next to each other. See each client in it’s own window and make changes that are available in both windows.
Or do I miss something?
Would this also work for the same patient? No, only if the client s session ís constantly renewed or if working in a different frame.
Opening two sessions for the same patient can be seen real life on the same monitor above or next to each other with some restrictions with two browser INLOG-sessions for the same physician.
Pimm
Pimm.
mukoya wrote on Saturday, May 07, 2011:
After further tests, I have established that I was wrong about top and bottom pane pages not showing when top and bottom check-boxes respectively are unchecked.
I concluded so when I could not access patient summary by clicking on the patient link at the top when “top” check-box is unchecked. Actually, this is still an issue. patient summary can only be accessed via the left nav. menu unless the Top pane is enabled. Other links appear to work just fine.
Have tried whimmel’s quick fix on my 1600*900 pixel laptop and it is alright except I think it needs deliberate coding to adjust for this display mode and allow items to fit well e.g in patient summary, the items on the left (i.e Demographics, Notes Disclosures, Vitals) take up almost all the space leaving barely any space for items on the right (Medications, prescriptions, appointments etc).
aethelwulffe wrote on Saturday, May 07, 2011:
Yeah, whimmel’s quicky looks alright for many wide screens here. If you turn on bottom, you get 4 panes though…kind a funny.
I am thinking that it needs to be a vert or horizontal selectable, so I guess I need to add a session variable or two in there, and option in the code with the new cases.
drbowen wrote on Monday, May 09, 2011:
Ever wonder why most sheets of paper are 8.5 x 11 inches? The printing industry worked this out a long time ago. The pages are easy to read and easy to print. If pages get too long they are hard to print. If the columns get too wide they are hard to read. The modern 16:9 aspect ratio computer screens are really intended on viewing 70 mm movies without out cutting off the edges of the movies. They have come into fashion as a result of market pressure from viewers of movies. These have nothing to do with normal business or reading documents.
I work on a variety of different screens sizes and shapes. The wide screen monitors (16:9) whether 14 inches like my lap top, 17, 19, or 21 like in my business office are harder to use and require more scrolling around. I find them significantly less efficient than my 17. 19 screens that are 4:3. Some of this may be an artifact of the development process on older 4:3 monitors since 1998. The navigation menu window on the left with content in middle and the “Lists” on the right play very well on the larger 4:3 monitors. This does not work well on 16:9 at any size.
I have to admit I have not tried to turn a 16:9 monitor on its side. This is only easy on the newest monitors and so far I’ve been to busy to learn how to do this with X11. Yes, there is a button that will rotate the screen for you on some of the monitors. Part of my lack of motivation is that I suspect that after you put you navigation menu on the left, the right side of the page is going to be too narrow to make document reading very easy. (Not sure if this feature even works in Linux).
I always uncheck the “bottom” frame. This helps increase the screen real estate regardless of the monitor aspect ratio. Part of the long term goal of turning off the bottom frame is to go to pure CSS without frames which should help improve screen refresh speed and improving end-user experience.
As you develop your applications, try to use different sizes of monitors and different aspect ratios to judge your work. Adding more frames in not a good option. We need to move towards pure CSS. Remember, we are still doing a lot of reviewing of 8.5 x 11 scanned sheets of paper. The 16:9 ratio always squshes these from top to bottom and difficult to view.
Sam Bowen, MD
drbowen wrote on Monday, May 09, 2011:
As an example of what I mean, the aspect ratios of 16:9, 4:3 and 8.5:11 are 1.78, 1.33 and 0.77. The aspect ration of the 4:3 screen is closer to the original “ideal” line width. This would have to be modified by the inclusion of the left navigation bar and (depending on the screen) whether the problem list in on the right side. The addition of the problem list to the right side of the screen improves the ratio more. This is one of the reasons I liked ZH Healthcare’s CAMOS modification. The functional viewing area is closer to the 8.5 x 11 of the documents that we have been viewing since the onset of modern printing. All of this is related to the ability of the human brain to jump from one line to the next without getting lost and slowing down the reader.
Sam Bowen, MD
aethelwulffe wrote on Monday, May 09, 2011:
Doc Sam,
Even those of us that live by the Golden Ruler need to look at the Parthenon occasionally to remember WHY. Your point object of the letter paper format is spot on.
As someone who has spent long hours coding programs to proportion viewing areas that “work” with any size, resolution, and aspect ratio of screen, I know that achieving good results often requires sometimes getting the right display in the first place. Unfortunately, we are dealing with a glut of cheap widescreens out there, and I am thinking the best options for dealing with them will have to use multiple approaches.
I myself often need at least two views open when working in the EMR. Since I don’t have the automated report formats I need (yet) for FARS/CFARS or other reports we must send to insurance companies, I have to use the billing list to search for encounters, then open the encounter, copy the output of the form, and paste it into a spreadsheet for post-processing manually. Single view doesn’t really work for me.
Let’s discuss the options/issues:
1. Will having two sessions open for a single user ever lead to any unexpected behavior or (worse) corruption of the DB?
2. Would it be a good idea to develop a Firefox add-on to help manage the frames and views (previews/zooms on mouseover?
3. Is it not best to have a user-configuration similar to the calender type format that will handle the view defaults for the individual user?
4. Should the “default” mode detect (using javascript) the screen resolution and set the frame aspect options automatically? This might include setting single-view on a sub-notebook size display (for instance).
5. Could a script on log-in automatically start a second session in another tab to allow a tabbed interface using standard browser features (without *ahem* “average” users figuring out how to do this on their own)?