Internal Billing Started

michael_barnett wrote on Saturday, June 10, 2006:

I have been asked to simplify the billing process. The boss does not want to pay for freeb nor use sql ledger.

I have created a blance sheet for all activity for the day the week the month the quarter the year

same for just the paitent.

The invoicing system will generate invoices for customers.

I am not however sure where open emr stands on x12 formatting. i see a button that says x12
but will have to read the code more closely to see exactly what happens.

I’m enhancing the payment screen to take into account processing insurance checks.

Its going to be fun any suggestions or guidelines are welcome

sunsetsystems wrote on Saturday, June 10, 2006:

OpenEMR has a lot of good A/R functionality that requires SQL-Ledger.  See:

http://www.sunsetsystems.com/node/17

It would take a lot of work to replace all that.  In the short term we were thinking of replacing FreeB but not SQL-Ledger.  I see you already noticed the Feature Request on this topic.

Perhaps Andres can tell us if anything has happened with X12 837p output directly from OpenEMR?  If he has not had time for it, I recommend you start there, and Andres or I could offer some pointers for getting started.

– Rod
www.sunsetsystems.com

michael_barnett wrote on Saturday, June 10, 2006:

hi Rod After reading so much of your code it its nice to actually talk to you.

I read your whole website at sunsystems. nice screen shots. I am also working on a video tutorial that walks a person through all of the features of openemr. that way if they need a quick reminder thay can click on help and pick a 30 second how to and watch someoen do it. I find video tutorials are used more often than screenshots or god forbid they have to read comprehend and implement instructions. 

SQL ledger is very nice but unfortunatly I’m being paid to develop openemr without it. nothing as extreme just simple billing and accounting.

I have it almost finished my deadline is july first. I have only been on the project a week so forgive me if have missed things in open emr.

I do not know if my employer realizes the complexity of x12 837 but that is the next hurdle  I am working on .

Thanks for commenting your code sure made my job much easier. And was the main reason I convinced the company to drop clearhealth and go with openemr.

I am also adding a configuration menu so the gals inthe office can pick their own colors and personalize it a bit. i honestly believe you can have the most perfect piece of software and it will get overlooked because somthing else is prettier…I think they will be more excited about that than x12 processing. hehe

drbowen wrote on Saturday, June 10, 2006:

I personally welcome bringing the billing and accounting functions inside of OpenEMR.  I think it is something that is very necessary to improve the ease of installation and ultimately to build a real practice management system inside of OpenEMR.

I think OpenEMR should have “hooks” into SQL-Ledger but should also interface with Peachtree and QuickBooks.

Hurray! Michael Barnett!

Sam Bowen

sunsetsystems wrote on Saturday, June 10, 2006:

Michael, I also applaud your effort and I agree with Sam that accounting within OpenEMR would be a good thing.  Are you planning to contribute your work back to the project?

If you can pull this off, perhaps the right way to interface other acounting packages is with data export.  OpenEMR’s A/R would handle payments and EOBs, patient statements, and some reporting but not much else.

Thank you for the kind words.  Feel free to contact me about the mechanics of working with the project.

– Rod
www.sunsetsystems.com

michael_barnett wrote on Saturday, June 10, 2006:

I have been behind a computer for the last 20 years. Although I admit i am new to programming (3 years) I find it a lonely passion… I don’t know anyone who understands the complexities of programming so thats why i decided to post here.

I want to share what i am doing with those that can help me improve. so yes i will share my attempts with everyone and just hope i can make a contribution that will help.

Although after reading your code i do feel a bit of intimidation. In the next few weeks after i have ironed out most of my bugs and have learned the interactions of the modules better i will post my accounting ledger. and the configuration page for colors and logo’s.

Right now i am playing around with the how can it be done and have not designed it with Module installation in mind. 

sunsetsystems wrote on Saturday, June 10, 2006:

Sounds good Michael.  Let’s talk about modularizing it when you are ready.  One step at a time.  :slight_smile:

– Rod
www.sunsetsystems.com

markleeds wrote on Sunday, June 11, 2006:

As I have stated before, I am successfully using OpenEMR to record all financial activity with little modification and no problems.  I have been doing this since January 2006 and my accountant has reviewed our system and approves of it.  Of course, if we were using SQL-Ledger to it’s fullest potential, there would be less work for him to do.  On the other hand, he feels comfortable with our accounting system and says that we are collecting adequate data for him to work with.

In our practice, all payments are associated with an encounter.  We record the payment and the form of payment within the encounter it is associated with using the copayment entry screen.

I am not suggesting that the community should move in this direction, just that that it works and can be done this way.

michael_barnett wrote on Sunday, June 11, 2006:

well can we see your modifications?
 

drbowen wrote on Sunday, June 11, 2006:

(This is a cross post from oemr.org)

Dear Michael,

Thanks for the hard work.

Installation of OpenEMR itself is easy, but when you start having to install PERL, upgrade all the modules, then FreeB and finally SQL-Ledger. It’s a lot for less experienced sysadmins. The whole process of installing OpenEMR with FreeB and SQL-Ledger is cumbersome.

I think internal billing is something that is defintely needed in OpenEMR. This will dramatically improve the ease of the installation. It is also the first step in having a "fully integrated" practice management system.

Rod Roark has done a lot to improve the interaction between OpenEMR and SQL-Ledger. There will be many practices running Windows environments who will also be running QuickBooks, PeachTree and other commercial accounting programs.

As Rod has suggested, the easiest way to interface to QuickBooks, PeachTree etc. is to simply export balances in the appropriate format. This is how I am doing my accounting at this time. (My practice actually uses QuickBooks for its general accounting.)

I’m more of an end user than a developer. I spend a lot of time trying to help new OpenEMR users to get started. The initial results of the user survey suggests that the great majority of the registered users of this site come here because they are struggling to get OpenEMR installed. A simpler installation process will have a dramatic effect on new user growth.

Thanks Michael!

Sam Bowen, MD

drbowen wrote on Sunday, June 11, 2006:

Dear Mark,

It sounds like you are creating what sounds like a ledger card for each patient from inside openemr?

It seems that from an accounting perspective their needs to be a identical entry in a "general ledger". 

ie all charges and subsequent debits and credits should be viewable from a general ledger as well as from the patient ledger?

Sam Bowen, MD

markleeds wrote on Monday, June 12, 2006:

Sure.  Most of the modifications are already checked in here in cvs.

From the encounter screen, when you have money in your hand to apply, you click on ‘copay’ in the lower left frame.  You enter the amount in the lower middle frame text box and choose the form of payment.  You have a choice of cash, check, credit, insurance (a drop down box shows the patient’s insurance companies), or write off.  If the patient gives you money at the time of service, you go into the encounter and enter it.  If you get a check in the mail, you go the encounter that is being paid for and enter the payment as being paid by whatever insurance company is paying.  If you get less than you charged for the visit, you enter the amount paid and enter the balance as a write off.  This covers all of the necessary data entry.  It doesn’t address capitated payments.  Maybe I could divide the capitation payment by the number of visits that month and enter it that way.  As far as viewing data, I use the main billing screen.  This modification has not been checked in yet.  I will most likely check it in in openemr/contrib with instructions to copy it to the proper location for those who want to use it.  It reports at the bottom all of the financial data for the date range selected.  I use it throughout the day to check for errors in payment entry.  I also use it to scan through and see who needs to be billed.  I have set up color coded info on charges, payments, and balance.

If you do not see the changes mentioned above as far as entering payment information, they are in cvs, so download the latest files and try them out.  I know that this system is not perfect and needs work.  We are ironing out the details and making improvement as new problems and issues come up along the way.

markleeds wrote on Monday, June 12, 2006:

Sam,

I think I just understood what you mean by general ledger.  I believe that this is what I look at on my modified version of the billing screen.  I will upload this file as soon as I can to the contrib directory.

michael_barnett wrote on Wednesday, June 14, 2006:

holy cow i just found the openemr Appliance. it has everything configured and ready to go. openemr sql ledger freeb lol . Man i hope i can convince my boss to use this. it will save me tons of work that you guys have already done.

and i can focus my attentions where they are needed. I’m still going to work on internal billing  but i had a july 1 to july 15 deadline.

now i think i can make it and still provide the custom requests. who ever put this together take a bow.

now i need to digest the manual and produce 30 second video’s on how to use this package.

I will encorporate a how to video menu so people can see someone walk through the details on every aspect of the openemr-freeb-sqlledger package.

my hangup was with sql ledger needing postgreSQL. I was not on a linux box. and did not have root access to my web servers.

thats why the boss said build it… cross yer fingers boys I’m showing him tomorrow.

bradymiller wrote on Friday, June 16, 2006:

How’d the appliance work out?

michael_barnett wrote on Friday, June 16, 2006:

We are going to use it for now. but actually build our own on a different platform. The boss doesn’t like mandriva.

as the company stablizes we will implement some of the modifications i am working on. For now i have to get intimate with sql-ledger and know it inside-out in order to encorporate the functionality we need or want into openemr.

I’ll start with the ledger and invoicing.

I will also use descriptive variables. man who ever wrote this with non-descriptive variables aught to be shot. sry pet peeve…  

michael_barnett wrote on Friday, June 16, 2006:

ok to be fair the code is commented beautifully but the two letter file names are irritating.

sry for the poke Dieter… hehe

andres_paglayan wrote on Friday, June 16, 2006:

just to consider,
sql-ledger offers documentation for a price,

michael_barnett wrote on Friday, June 16, 2006:

When i was in programming boot camp hehe(yea he was that hard)part of the development process included documentation.

to offer software as open source and withhold the documentation belittles tha concept of a community working together to create something free.

When i was hired the company wanted me to develop clearheath or mirrormed. I told them i could but the process would take longer and cost more.

I’ll be proud to add the funcionality of SQL-ledger to openemr and the documentation to explian how I did it and what i did. It might give someone an idea on another project or it might help a fello developer just look good in front of his boss.

i sure will be happy to offer my video tutorials on how a user can implement all of the potential of openemr.

And i will definatly put those design and documentation courses to use revamping the users manual. and or creating a developers manual.

now i’m riled up…

bradymiller wrote on Saturday, June 17, 2006:

First, regarding virtual appliances:
If your gonna build one, check out VMware Workstation(only free for first month, then a couple hundred bucks), which allows you to make snapshots/clones of VM’s, which helps speeden development. Also, VMware Server(still beta, but should have stable version in next several months) will be FREE and should work well for managing Virtual Server’s such as an OpenEMR appliance. Sorry, I feel sort of like an infomercial, but this stuff is really cool.

Second: just a quick question regarding sql-ledger. Initially you were not gonna use sql-ledger because of postgresql root issues on windows. Now, though, if your gonna build it on a linux based appliance(where you can be root) then why not just use sql-ledger, instead of re-creating it inside openEMR? I’m assuming it has something to do with your boss :slight_smile:

later,
Brady