Controlled Rx, Allscripts, Users & OpenEMR

ideaman911 wrote on Thursday, June 04, 2009:

Hi Folks;

As usual, I’m on a “never satisfied” jag :wink:

To benefit from the Medicare "e-Rx Incentive" (see my recent coding advice in the Users forum) as well as to comply with state and DEA law re controlled substances (CS), I want to suggest a design approach.  MY skills will require a huge improvement before I can CAUSE this, but hopefully I can cajole those others who can.  I promise to help in any way I can.

In NYS, as I suspect is true in most states, CS needs a specific state-issued script form, and they cannot be sent electronically, including fax.  As you can guess, bouncing between those issues, e-RX, and OpenEMR users unwilling to pay the proprietary systems costs while a free portal like Allscripts exists which is fully CCHIT compliant for Rx, is a quality concern, to say little of the tedium.

Conceptually, I plan to work on the following:
a)  Store with a drug name in database if it needs CS process, and sort for print vs upload to e-Rx portal.  But allow user an override, as for example if a patient insists they want a printed script (which is still OK for the Medicare incentive).
b)  Accumulate for later process (eg when a house call provider gets to a hotspot where she can connect to ANY e-Rx portal, and/or connect to a printer.  Allow single click ALL or ctrl-click selections for the e-file or print, with store as written once processed, but always allowing retrieval of any previously processed, to reproduce with similar add to data in OpenEMR.
c)  A "formatter" which allows selection of four-panel or single as default, and storage of printer settings (the idea is to make it take as little action by the clinician or staff as possible to do the task they do most often each day :wink: with ability to override at any time.
d)  The ability to auto-index the state code, or edit same, so OpenEMR would be able to track every CS script, while removing from prescribers the tedium of their entry.  Almost all come in sequential groups, whether in pad or boxed form.
e)  A "stream builder" for use with e-Rx portals which do NOT have direct ability for connectivity to OpenEMR.  I did some work with GE to do MRP entry via barcoded materials tags which included tabs between fields, and see no reason that could not be duplicated, except use the data from OpenEMR.  At worst it might require a limited number of mouse strokes to start, and possibly intermediate stops.  But almost all could be automated to reduce errors (transcribe, data and location, to name a few), the reason GE paid me to do the barcodes.
f)  If at all possible to obtain from FDA their full meds list with all the various dosages, etc. and add the CS spec plus add a per-insurer checkoff to indicate if prior auth is required.  Selection should indicate in the patient record the date it expires, and dosage approved, both of which should display in the patient Rx listing.  Ideally, we should also add to patient data whether they are on a monthly, 90 day, or other plan, and PROMPT users when the next is coming due, rather than so many "I ran out" calls on Sundays.

The objectives here are threefold:
a)  Make the SIMPLEST process available that of using OpenEMR, both to store the data ONCE and automatically thereafter, rather than the multi-entry system as it now exists almost everywhere else.
b)  Allow for online, offline, and non-linked portals to nonetheless be used efficiently, even while assuring that ALL meds are in the OpenEMR database for a patient.
c)  Make that demonstrably so flexible that it can be easily tailored to the specifics of most users’ portals, work for any state forms, and require nothing that cannot be bought at the local Staples store.

EVERY psyche pro I have spoken to views the difficulties of repeated CS scripts and their tracking to be EXTREMELY important to their choice in EMR selection.  I am hard pressed to believe it is less so for most other prescribers.

Thoughts anyone?

Joe Holzer    Idea Man
http://www.holzerent.com

sunsetsystems wrote on Friday, June 12, 2009:

I may be getting some support in the general area of e-prescribing and overhauling the Rx stuff in OpenEMR.

Joe, what is your experience like with Allscripts e-prescribing?  Do the terms of service allow external software to interact with it (ignoring for the moment any technical challenges)?

Regarding a drug database, it looks like DailyMed at http://dailymed.nlm.nih.gov/ is freely available, and I was able to download their complete database in XML format.  I’d be very interested to hear some expert opinions of how useful and complete it would be, and if any alternatives might be better.  I think you can evaluate it pretty well by trying some drug lookups at the above-mentioned URL.

Rod
www.sunsetsystems.com

cfapress wrote on Friday, June 12, 2009:

Rod and Joe,

I wrote a drug-import script in <oemr>/contrib/util called load_fda_drugs.plx. It was based on the FDA Orange book data. The Orange book includes something like 5,000+ drugs, including their different dosages.

Here is a link to the source of the Orange book list.
http://www.fda.gov/cder/orange/obreadme.htm

And here is yet another FDA Drug database that is freely available:
http://www.fda.gov/Drugs/InformationOnDrugs/ucm079750.htm

I wonder if DailyMed pulls their information from the same source. Their web site indicates they get their information from the FDA.

Jason

markleeds wrote on Friday, June 12, 2009:

What would be involved in the overhaul? I have done a lot of work in the area of generating prescriptions. You may see a brief demonstration at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctNfcGdhtTw.  The actual entry of a prescription begins about 40 seconds into the video.  I have used this system for the past three years with good results.  There are more features not seen in the video that make prescribing even faster and easier.  I originally tried the built-in system and found it to be too time consuming and cumbersome.  I understand if other developers feel that my way of doing things is not right for the general population of doctors.  In that case, it is available as an optional plug-in.  On the other hand, the code is a part of openemr and is available for further integration into the overall project.  I would be happy to help with this process.

Mark

sunsetsystems wrote on Friday, June 12, 2009:

Thanks Jason and Mark…

I really appreciate the additional drug info pointers.  Looks to me like DailyMed has more information than the Orange Book or the Drugs@FDA database, as evidenced by the 230MB download size if nothing else!  Also it is structured (XML) which adds flexibility, whereas Drugs@FDA offers the package inserts only in PDF format.  Yes I think all of these must share common roots.

Mark, I’m not sure yet what the overhaul would look like.  We are just starting to look at it.  Thanks for the CAMOS prescription info, I was not familiar with that and some of your code may indeed be useful; certainly your input and advice will be.

Yes, the built-in system is cumbersome and the idea is to replace it with something much faster, easier, more flexible, and supporting plug-ins for e-prescribing and other value-adds.

Rod
www.sunsetsystems.com

ideaman911 wrote on Friday, June 12, 2009:

Rod et al;

Allscripts has repeatedly said they have no plans for direct linkages nor "upload" processing.  But working with my wife (the actual prescriber), it has a lot of similarities to the GE MRP stuff I did, in that field data entry can be accomplished by tabbing between fields and typing the data.

In the absence of having actually done so, I believe it would be possible to allow a user of any such portal to effectively map a "macro" which could then be repeatedly run by OpenEMR (at least until that portal redesigned their portal :wink: by placing its needed data in that macro stream.  Note that this would require the macro to actually occur in some other window from that in which OpenEMR was running, perhaps.

That way, OpenEMR users would have the flexibility to use their preferred portal without OpenEMR having to select any one such as "it", but could allow them to nonetheless do all the most desirable things within OpenEMR, thereby enhancing the value added for OpenEMR:

a)  Actually track within OpenEMR all the meds our users actually prescribe, AS WELL AS allow additional tracking of other meds by other prescribers which our users could note in the meds records, and use the publically available FDA lists (which are NOT strictly limited to PDF by the way - see my separate email notes) for as much or as little data as our users deem appropriate for them.

b)  Allow our users to select a med, then have a drop-down of all the dosage forms available, as well as generic equivalencies, for one-click selection.  Once entered for that patient, OpenEMR would prompt for renewals in advance, and could send the scripts for e-Rx or print them, depending on CS status and prescriber preference.  Both print and e-Rx could collect for most efficient batch process by the prescriber/facility.

c)  For printing, would allow simple formatting for specialty state forms, etc, and include the ability to recall last script used so as to track the state code within OpenEMR but save the manual tedium of keying it (they are almost always a sequential series).  But importantly, having once entered the selection, subsequent scripts would be self-prompting for the provider to simply accept, and they would be added to the stream for processing, thereby cutting down on the "Sunday Calls" (as well as every Other day ;-)  That would require a patient specific checking of last Rx date and quantity, as well as the fills allowed by their insurers, etc.

d)  That would also allow for checking any med shown for a patient against the FDA list for contraindicators, etc and raise a red flag, one of the tenets of the CCHIT.  But ALL these would also have the ability of the prescriber to override and yet take advantage of all the efficiencies the technology makes possible.

e)  Ideally for any med and insurer, we might consider making a "formulary validator" which would save a lot of silly time by indicating for a prescriber if they are likely to have to get approval.  Some of the insurers publish those formularies.  Again, though, the prescribers MUST have override ability.

f)  Along those lines and recognizing it is unlikely to change in the near future, having a patient specific tracking for authorizations, etc (for both meds as well as for services, with both numerical and date count-downs to alarms) would also prevent rather than having to correct insurance coverage issues.

As I have noted before, I see what needs to occur.  My skills are not sufficient to do it.  Yet.

Joe Holzer    Idea Man
http://www.holzerent.com

cfapress wrote on Monday, June 15, 2009:

Rod,

The Orange book and the other FDA link provide data in a plain text file. It’s very easy to process with command line scripts.

You’re right that it doesn’t provide the level of detail that the DailyMeds does. For example, it doesn’t include any images of the drug labels or lengthy descriptions about the drugs. The Orange book text file just gives very basic info about the drugs, such as their name.

Jason

sethlang wrote on Wednesday, June 17, 2009:

Has anyone here looked into surescripts Prescriber Software Certification? ( http://www.surescripts.net/get-certified-technology-vendors.html ) . My understanding is that surescripts is the only e-prescribing clearinghouse and that their e-prescribing certification (or buying service from a servicer certified by them) is a step needed for getting CCHIT certification. I think I read somewhere that they charge $800 for the e-prescribing specifications. Would it be worth it if we all pitched in for the specifications so that we could then start by listing the steps needed and hopefully then we could all start contributing code to develop native e-prescribing for openemr?

sraj49 wrote on Thursday, January 28, 2010:

Mark,

Can you post the youtube link again. For some reason it shows an error message.

Thanks