bestcomposer wrote on Friday, June 14, 2013:
Is there a way to create two forms so that the entries in one form become selectable in another form. For instance, I would like to create a treatment plan form and also create a progress note form where the goals for that patient appear in the progress note and can be selected to document what goal(s) were addressed during the encounter.
mdsupport wrote on Friday, June 14, 2013:
Each form is stored as a separate record. So standard LBFs without any plug-in code won’t do what you are looking for. Even then, if you are going to have same information updated from multiple forms, you need to consider the accountability implications. This package does not implement access restrictions at individual field level. So potentially a nurse could override the doctor’s notes.
fsgl wrote on Friday, June 14, 2013:
Give more details regarding the circumstances that requires 2 forms in one. For whom is it intended? Why is it impractical to have both in 1 form?
Physician progress notes rarely omit an Impression and Plan (treatment) section. If the diagnosis carries a high risk of mortality or grave morbidity, it is considered malpractice not to elaborate a treatment regimen.
bestcomposer wrote on Friday, June 14, 2013:
I am planning on using open emr for a mental health counseling agency. We are required to do a treatment plan with each patient and establish a few goals of treatment. We are required in our progress notes for each visit to document which goal or goals were addressed during the visit. So it would be nice to have a progress note form that could use the information from the patient’s treatment plan by listing the established goals and the clinician can then check off which goal or goals were worked on during the session. The goals would not be modified at all by the progress note form.
For example: instead of the progress note form having check boxes for goal 1, goal 2, and goal 3. Goal 1 would actually be goal 1 from that patient’s treatment plan. So the progress note form would basically be dynamic for the goal sections but then include narrative sections for the actual progress note.
I hope that makes sense.
fsgl wrote on Friday, June 14, 2013:
SOAP notes work well for Internal Medicine but less well for the specialties.
Because you are thinking about customization, consider a Layout Based Visit form for the Progress Note and a NationNote for the various parts of the treatment plan.
This will be essentially one form. The single form approach will facilitate copying on to paper should that become necessary.
Refer to these webpages for LBV and NationNote for guidance.
I assume that the description of each therapeutic goal will be about a paragraph in length. Each goal can be replicated for subsequent visits by using the Component feature of NationNotes or more simply, by copying and pasting them from the Clinical View of Past Encounters and Documents. The latter would probably provide a smoother work flow.
juggernautsei wrote on Saturday, June 15, 2013:
Hi,
this make sense to me. I just worked on this sort of thing for a physical therapist. They have similar requirements. They have to document treatment plans and progress.
What we did was to take the treatment plan form that was being used in the office and recreate it in the LBV/LBF. The NationNote did not work well at all but when we recreated the form, it was magic. Because in the LBF/V you can make it as interactive as you would like. You can make as many different types of forms. It took me roughly 6 hours to do the first form. After that, it only took a few hours to do variations.
The nice thing about the LBF is that you can go back and visit previous saved treatment plans. The bad thing is that the previous one can’t be saved for the new encounter, yet. The great thing is that function can be built. Anything is truly possible.
fsgl wrote on Sunday, June 16, 2013:
Just reviewed ZH Healthcare’s NationNote video tutorial.
I use NationNotes to incorporate .jpeg files into the clinical notes or to add an addendum to an old note. There does not appear to be another way for a non-techie to add images without NationNotes.
If the objective is to repeat a block of text, NationNotes may be overkill. IT folks may think it is fun to add Categories and Components, but the end user prefers to get the job done with the minimum of fuss and keystrokes. Copy and paste from Past Encounters and Documents would be superior in this case.
jcahn2 wrote on Sunday, June 16, 2013:
Ahoy fsgl,
Of course. you could cut and paste without too many clicks using CAMOS. I would love to see all these tricks “seemlessly” available from the SOAP page or similar. A fellow can wish, no? Jack
fsgl wrote on Monday, June 17, 2013:
Salutations Jack,
No experience with CAMOS, so can’t comment.
Abe can have his client put the goals into Plan of a SOAP, then copy and paste for the next progress note. See attachment.
If his client is typing-averse and given that the SOAP note is basically 4 textboxes, this minimalist format may not suit.
jcahn2 wrote on Monday, June 17, 2013:
As Momma used to tell us:
“So try it; you’ll like it!” Jack
bestcomposer wrote on Monday, June 17, 2013:
Thanks for the suggestions. It’s looking like there is not an easy way to achieve what I want. The state requires we do PIE notes where P is purpose and are the treatment plan goals, I is the Intervention uses by the clinician, and E is effectiveness or how the client responds to the intervention and progress toward goals.
Perhaps down the line it would be a great feature for Open EMR to be able to pull information forward from a form. This could be a good feature for physicians as well. I know when I see my doctor, the EMR program that is in use pulls forward various diagnoses and other previous information for the doctor to select what was addressed in the current visit.
fsgl wrote on Monday, June 17, 2013:
Mothers are wonderful. They impart to us the wisdom of our ancestors. Hope that you had a happy Father’s Day yesterday.
fsgl wrote on Monday, June 17, 2013:
By “easy”, if you mean that you cannot pull a ready made form “off the shelf”; that is correct with the SOAP note.
The premium that your client is paying you, is for customization and support. If we, physicians, were all DIY-ers, you folks would be twiddling your thumbs all day long.
PIE notes can be constructed from Layout Based Visit forms. It is time consuming, nonetheless it can be done. After it has been accomplished and you feel generous, share the form with the community. If you can devise a carry forward feature, which would be an improvement over copy and paste, and also share that with us; that would be even better.
bestcomposer wrote on Monday, June 17, 2013:
I am not getting paid for this customization. I am a DIY-er. I am an active therapist with a busy case load. Mental Health reimbursement rates are very low compared to physicians, which is why unless you are a very large agency, small practices cannot afford emr software or packages, or people to customize open emr. I enjoy doing things with computers in my free time so my thoughts are to see if I can customize open emr suitable for my own needs and the rest of my practice.
dokellie wrote on Monday, June 17, 2013:
On 6/14/2013 5:18 PM, Abe wrote:
I am planning on using open emr for a mental health counseling agency.
We are required to do a treatment plan with each patient and establish
a few goals of treatment. We are required in our progress notes for
each visit to document which goal or goals were addressed during the
visit. So it would be nice to have a progress note form that could use
the information from the patient’s treatment plan by listing the
established goals and the clinician can then check off which goal or
goals were worked on during the session. The goals would not be
modified at all by the progress note form.For example: instead of the progress note form having check boxes for
goal 1, goal 2, and goal 3. Goal 1 would actually be goal 1 from that
patient’s treatment plan. So the progress note form would basically be
dynamic for the goal sections but then include narrative sections for
the actual progress note.I hope that makes sense.
Using form entries in another form
https://sourceforge.net/p/openemr/discussion/202505/thread/645b4788/?limit=25#c5f6
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Do the mental health forms already in the users files not fill this
requirement?
Linda H.
–
Linda Hungerford
Saint Bernards vom Talhund
Two cockers in the Tallgrass Prairie
Etcetera Etcetera
fsgl wrote on Monday, June 17, 2013:
Great, that you are a Do-It-Yourself-er.
After you get the forms just right and wish to share, it will be welcomed.
dokellie wrote on Monday, June 17, 2013:
On 6/17/2013 11:48 AM, Abe wrote:
I am not getting paid for this customization. I am a DIY-er. I am an
active therapist with a busy case load. Mental Health reimbursement
rates are very low compared to physicians, which is why unless you are
a very large agency, small practices cannot afford emr software or
packages, or people to customize open emr. I enjoy doing things with
computers in my free time so my thoughts are to see if I can customize
open emr suitable for my own needs and the rest of my practice.
Using form entries in another form
https://sourceforge.net/p/openemr/discussion/202505/thread/645b4788/?limit=25#062a
My approach has been to take the APPI Psych Eval form and the Brief
Encounter form from their book of clinical forms, copy and paste from
OpenOffice into Letters and Templates in OpenEMR. Some spacing
adjustments have to be made, and I used dashes and spaces as place
holders to retain the format that I want.
fwiw…
Linda E. Hungerford MD
markleeds wrote on Wednesday, June 19, 2013:
This should not be a problem. Forms can access the database. Create a basic form with one of the form building tools and start customizing. Use the code of other forms to see how to do what you need to do. CAMOS does a lot of database access and may be a good source for code examples of how to accomplish your goal.
dokellie wrote on Thursday, June 20, 2013:
On 6/19/2013 11:41 AM, mjl69 wrote:
This should not be a problem. Forms can access the database. Create a
basic form with one of the form building tools and start customizing.
Use the code of other forms to see how to do what you need to do.
CAMOS does a lot of database access and may be a good source for code
examples of how to accomplish your goal.
Using form entries in another form
https://sourceforge.net/p/openemr/discussion/202505/thread/645b4788/?limit=25#8f8a
It becomes at time issue for some of us {
L E Hungerford MD