blankev wrote on Wednesday, October 23, 2013:
Putting the Forms and LBF-Visit forms on the WIKI-page is a great idea. Can import them to the Local versions.
Is there an option to use them also in the Demo versions?
fsgl wrote on Wednesday, October 23, 2013:
The link for the Contributed Forms has been placed in the Supplementary section of the User Manuals. The other 78 forms have been listed under Tony’s two forms to give them greater visibility and to increase their utilization.
Pimm,
There does not seem to be an obvious way to gain access to the interface\forms folders of the Demo’s. Without this access, the contributed forms cannot be easily copied into them.
Because these forms are specific to one’s specialty, it is understandable why Brady did not make this available on the Demo’s. The Demo’s serve a general purpose. If the user wanted a specialized form, he would have to copy it into his interface\forms folder.
fsgl wrote on Friday, October 25, 2013:
Hi Pimm,
See this thread for hints to your question of adding Contributed Forms to the 4.1.1 Demo (forget about the 4.1.2 or 4.1.3 Demo’s).
It may be possible to import the .sql file of the non-LBV forms into the 4.1.1 Demo (on the day it is not “contrary”). Then the question is how would the user gain access to the .sql file in the first place without copying it to their interface folder beforehand.
When I have nothing better to do, I could put that project on my To-Do List. 78 .sql files is a big project for a non-geek. I can hear Kevin in the background chiming in: You can fly with MySql Workbench and zip it at the same time. Just use this code: xxxx yyyy zzzz.
blankev wrote on Friday, October 25, 2013:
So we have to wait for your WIKI page to appear. It sounds FSGL, you have great developers skills. You are far ahead of me…
If you have to make a try on your local machine, you don’t need the sql, great conclusion, but YES for future use you can first insert the sql in Demo, see if it is “the thing” and no harm done (resets itself every morning).
With the correct sql code you can import only a part of OpenEMR… (dear Developers, correct me if I am wrong on my suppositions)
mdsupport wrote on Saturday, October 26, 2013:
Attaching a utility we have been using for a while that lets you export layout as a text file and then import it in another installation. Since this is not part of standard code, you will need to copy it to ‘custom’ directory and access it directly (e.g. …/openemr/custom/imex_lbf.php). This is used by our developers so use with caution.
fsgl wrote on Saturday, October 26, 2013:
Hi Pimm,
Thank you for your very kind words.
Being an old person, there is only a finite amount of time left. Learning to read Tang Dynasty poetry and playing the piano are unfulfilled goals, therefore acquiring Brady’s developer’s skills may be out of reach due to time constraints. Being a Wiki contributor is rewarding in of itself.
Until the compressed .sql files (the Wiki won’t accept uncompressed files) have been attached to the 79 contributed forms; one can copy the forms to a test copy, register it, assign it to the Clinical tab, export the tables and import them into the 4.1.1 Demo.
I tried it yesterday and it worked with Tony’s Physical Exam; granted it, that the form was already in Administration/Forms. I don’t have a test copy (deleted it after Henry Alvarez got straightened out with the Eye forms) and I didn’t want to mess up my working copy; therefore I used Tony’s form as the guinea pig.
I dropped the tables for the Physical Exam and in the Registry. The form disappeared. After I imported both, the form was restored without registration nor addition to the Clinical tab.
The registry tables function like the List tables, so both the registry and the form files have to be imported together.
The use of phpMyAdmin appears to be an efficient method for professional support to copy these forms to the client’s machine without manual installation.
Attached are the zipped files for Tony’s 2 forms. Have fun experimenting.
MD Support,
Thanks for the imex utility. Always good to have another tool in the box.
phpMyAdmin on our local machines works well to import Layout Based Visit Forms.
Henry Alvarez successfully imported a complicated NationNote form with 5 lists and 20 sets of Components, some sets with as much as 15 to 20 Components, using phpMyAdmin.
The 4.1.1 Demo imports but erratically while the 4.1.2 and the 4.1.3 Demo’s don’t have this capability because of outmoded copies of PHP. Fortunately the latest XAMPP-OpenEMR package is up-to-date.
I think our over-arching goal should be to enable the average practitioner to customize without the prerequisite of the developer’s skill sets; otherwise OpenEMR will never be accepted in the larger medical community.
Until Brady constructed the XAMPP-OpenEMR package; most physicians, myself included, did not even have access to OpenEMR; let alone customizing it.
With greater acceptance, comes greater support and growth of the project.
mdsupport wrote on Saturday, October 26, 2013:
FSGL, It is great that you are more comfortable with raw database interface.
Many users may find the utility safer and easier to use. In the Wiki scenario if you have installed the utility,
Export:
- Select specific form by description from drop down list and press submit
Wiki / in our case we use a shared location on network
2. Manually upload plain text file containing exported records to wiki along with screen shots and narrative.
Import:
3. Press file selection button and paste the download link from step 2
4. Press submit to complete import.
Ideally the import function should read a catalog of forms from a predefined location and let average practitioner install from web to try what others have shared.
fsgl wrote on Sunday, October 27, 2013:
My foray into phpMyAdmin was more out of necessity than a sense of adventure. After Tony had difficulties with the .sql files of my Eye Forms, I forged ahead undeterred by the fact that I knew nothing about the module. I did know enough to warn everyone to backup beforehand. Thank goodness for Brady’s Demo’s.
I have just started a Wiki article on Contibuted Layout Based Forms. If you have LBV forms to share, please add them with their compressed files to the article. I’ll alphabetize and re-order the list later if need be.
blankev wrote on Sunday, October 27, 2013:
You call yourself old? You do a great job.
CONGRATULATIONS.
To continue and keep things going, you need to clarify some things for me:
- Where do you find time do such a nice evolution after month and month of ongoing discussions on how to implement LBV-Forms?
It seems to me that Nation Notes as you show, might take over CAMOS module. (Just a personal observation)
- You only use S-ubjective and O-bjective.
In general practice I am educated to use SOAP:
S = Subjective
O - Objective
A - Analyzing
P = Planning for future interventions (Could be a next planned appointment or a laboratory test or planning for operations).
- How can we plan to make your tutorial more open for general implementation. There is so much general stuff, stuff that can be used by any specialist, “the fit for all of us users”, and there is also very much stuff that only relates to Ophthalmology Practice.
I wish I had some more hours in a day to make a better analysis of your manual.
fsgl wrote on Sunday, October 27, 2013:
Good morning, Pimm.
The mirror tells me I’m old and I cannot disagree. Old people can be productive like the 92 year old woman who still works in a syringe factory because she enjoys working. They can be wonderful like our Grannies.
I’m the Ophthalmic equivalent of a gentleman farmer, hence the extra time. Ophthalmology is still fun and the OpenEMR Project is way fun. Wiki articles get written but (un-fun) chores like leaf raking and plastering don’t get done.
We call Assessment, Impression and Plan is the same. The concept of a SOAP note was coming into vogue in medical school but our residency program never fully embraced it because we write our notes differently. At the time the acronym had a certain cleverness, savoir faire quality and pedagogical value to it.
What part of my Eye article do you think I should extract and place in the body of Contributed LBV Form article? I do plan to modify the article as other forms are added.
My Wiki pieces would not been possible without your Layout Based Visit Form article.
blankev wrote on Sunday, October 27, 2013:
Between you and me, it is a great WIKI Page! I will go in hibernation and have a look every now and specially than…
If I come to a solid conclusion I will let you know. For the time being we do it your way, and as soon as more LBF-Visit Forms become available we have a brainstorming session to evaluate how to continue this long needed (?) project.
It might just be jealousy that made me comment… ;-))
blankev wrote on Sunday, October 27, 2013:
BTW you evaluation of Assessment comes into view with my self invented short consultations for General Practitioners:
The name seems to be longer, but the effect is very time effective…
SOBER
Subjective
Objective
BER is short for just a moment of thoughts (sobering conclusions)and write a Recipe…
The SOBER approach can usually be done in 90 seconds, with use of OpenEMR… (This includes the handshake and letting out the client happy and convinced to be cured in time without harm done.
jcahn2 wrote on Sunday, October 27, 2013:
Drifting far from topic, but would add this:
SOAP was also vogue in my residency 1972-75 and we all “drank the coolaid”. Each passing year, the utility of the SOAP format lessens for me. I hope one day we can abandon it for a more useful problem solving format and a more longitudinal tracking of our patient care efforts.
BTW is this Subj or Obj, “He states that his renal ultrasound showed a stone in the left kidney.”? or “He states that his fingerstick sugars are usually normal.”?
blankev wrote on Sunday, October 27, 2013:
Would it help if it is changed into SHIT?
S-he or H-e tells me what is wrong…
-I- think, and after re questioning am sure about …
T=his is what we are going to do, after mutual agreement
Easier to remember and a more modern expression seeing all the medical TV SOAP 's
Translated into Jack’s:
He did a finger stick (Subj)
I did a finger stick(Obj)
We did another finger stick just to be more than sure (Mutual agreement)
Just joking, trying to overcome my jet lag.
fsgl wrote on Sunday, October 27, 2013:
Hi Jack,
I’ll have to be extra nice to you, now that I know that you are a wee bit older than myself. Remind me to tell you my 2 favorite geezer jokes.
I remember, as a child, the smiling face on the Acapulco pitcher of Kool-Aid. See attachment.
Hi Pimm,
Hope you returned from some place nice like Amsterdam.
Just found out that it is not possible to replicate the non-LBV forms via phpMyAdmin. The contributed form has to be copied into the interface/forms folder. No such thing as quick & dirty.
jcahn2 wrote on Sunday, October 27, 2013:
@ fsgl Where do you find this stuff?
blankev wrote on Sunday, October 27, 2013:
To keep to the topic, I am in Holland. Yesterday I had with Curacao a time difference of six hours, today only five hours. I missed one hour of my life without even noticing it. (Summertime went into wintertime)
I am sure we can make the original Forms the same as you did for LBF-Visit forms.
We activate them in our own local OpenEMR, make a sql file, zip or tar and export to V4.1.1
FYEO, we copy the sql file in the WIKI-pages your are about to release and they can download the sql file and export sql to the Demo versions.
Is this correct or not?
It does not interfere with the ready to install Forms (non-LBF)
fsgl wrote on Sunday, October 27, 2013:
Jack, a blast from the past.
fsgl wrote on Sunday, October 27, 2013:
Hi Pimm,
Hope it’s not too cold over there, given the Gulf Stream. I understand that the Indonesian restaurants in Amsterdam are quite wonderful.
I was playing around with the Activity Impact form and there appears to be about 4-5 .php files in addition to that for form_activity_impact.
I can’t figure out where the other files are hiding in the tables, if they are there to begin with. After I imported the registry and the form .sql, no form shows up in the Clinical tab.
One of the developers have to clue us in. I’m stumped.
blankev wrote on Sunday, October 27, 2013:
I am getting confused. There are N-forms and L-forms. (Non-LBV-f an LBF Visit forms)
If you have a fresh install, like the new Demo version after reset you can implement N-form the simple way. Take the marvelous Pain-Graphic form as an example it takes about six seconds to activate it!
Most of the N-forms are in their own Directory. As you said before to implement a not included N-form in that specific directory you have to do a copy => paste of that N-form. Once copied (this can not be done in the Demo version) to the right Directory it is as easy as can be to include them and activate them.
Now in a fresh install we can see what tables are added or what tables are changed. And from there on the sql file should be easy to create. I am speaking of a fresh and new install! The only problem to be encountered is the tables that are changed, because the Key-ID fields have to be different from what is already installed. We might need a programmer to explain how to get the new entries of the fields in sequence.