tmccormi wrote on Monday, March 30, 2015:
Original Post similar to above by Tony, President OEMR
Art Eaton
Mar 26 (4 days ago)
to me, David, Gregory, Jack, Kevin, Sam, Sena, Shameem
I am all for that.
We also need to participate in submitting editorial content to this site.
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Jack Cahn
Mar 26 (4 days ago)
to Art, me, David, Gregory, Kevin, Sam, Sena, Shameem
Cast your bread upon that water. Jack Cahn
Shameem Hameed
Mar 27 (3 days ago)
to me, Art, David, Gregory, Jack, Kevin, Sam, Sena
Hi Guys
Nice to hear from you all.
Roger and his site are great, and he is doing a lot for open source which is why we decided to support him.
However here are some facts that we all need to be aware of: In Alexa rankings, the lower your rank the more popular your site. open-emr.org has a number of 295,000 whilst OHN has a ranking of only 475,000. In other words open-emr draws more traffic. What I am saying is openemr may not need the marketing as much as the Vendors do.
We at ZH supported OHN on our dime because it is commercially advantageous to us. Wouldn’t it be better for Vendors like MI2, visolve, ensoftek et cetera to advertise rather than openemr non-profit? Vendors like ZH and MI2 have more money and stand to gain as well. Might we not be better off spending non-profit money on development?
ZH will continue to support OHN and promote openemr. We’ve given him articles and also hiring others to write about openemr: all paid for by ZH. I encourage other Vendors to do the same.
–
Shameem C Hameed
Art Eaton
Mar 27 (3 days ago)
to Shameem, me, David, Gregory, Jack, Kevin, Sam, Sena
Alexa rankings are based on people that have the alexa toolbar (read ‘virus’). That is a very poor indicator to track corporate (and especially software professional) interest in a site. There are other reasons why it could and should be ignored, along with the google flavor. It in no way accounts for newsfeeds, mailing lists, sub-domain access or any other meaningful level of communication.
Personally, I feel the OpenEMR brand of OpenEMR should have some presence.
Tony McCormick tony@mi-squared.com
Mar 27 (3 days ago)
to Art, Shameem, David, Gregory, Jack, Kevin, Sam, Sena
Need to hear from Sena, Sam and Kevin please…
Sena P
Mar 27 (3 days ago)
to me, Art, Shameem, David, Gregory, Jack, Kevin, Sam
Thanks for asking my views.
Unfortunately, I do not have an opinion or views here.
Regards,
Sena
Kevin Yeh
Mar 28 (2 days ago)
to Sena, me, Art, Shameem, David, Gregory, Jack, Sam
If a vote were being taken right now, mine would be no.
For comparison, another potential use for $2000 for OEMR user outreach might be to pay for a registration server and code to collect contact information as part of the install and upgrade scripts.
What will the contents of the Ad be?
In your original message, there is this statement from the folks at OHN.
I was thinking that what may help the most is to do a 2 for 1 ads for you guys. For the price of one ad, we can run ads for both MI-Squared and OEMR. That should really have an impact.
How do we truly figure out what the impact is?
I could be convinced otherwise, but as it stands, I vote no.
Tony McCormick tony@mi-squared.com
Mar 28 (2 days ago)
to Kevin, Gregory, Sam, David, Sena, Jack, Shameem, Art
I do intend to run an ad for mi2.
If he gives a the OEMR a 50% discount because of that then cool.
The ad it self is a graphic link. But the benefits are ongoing articles and content about the project. Very worth it.
Kevin Yeh
Mar 28 (2 days ago)
to me, Gregory, Sam, David, Sena, Jack, Shameem, Art
How does a graphic link result in $2000 value to oemr.org though?
Does the link go to the donations page? Do we expect 20 people to click through and donate $100?
“But the benefits are ongoing articles and content about the project.” What does this mean? Is OHN going to write articles about OpenEMR for this fee?
Still unclear about the ROI to the project for purchasing an Ad.
Art Eaton
Mar 28 (2 days ago)
to Kevin, me, Gregory, Sam, David, Sena, Jack, Shameem
- OEMR as an entity is represented in a venue of interested parties. Hey, why would Apache or Mozilla advertise, right? Associated branding and presence is not someone like you are me has anything but contempt for and have a hard time relating to at all. Reality; consisting of all the Earth Humans out there, forms a different opinion. People get degrees and jobs with measurable returns for their employers promulgating crap like this all over billboards and public transit. I could probably post a picture of a fat dude in a suit with poorly-applied studio make-up on, and you would instantly recognize him as a personal injury lawyer with nationwide presence. His firm has made millions (billions?) by using such methods. The folks slapping his picture on phonebook covers (remember those?) can actually measure their return on totally untargeted advertising that does nothing but promote brand recognition. Try to quantify measures like this on a small scale by such as us, and you will have trouble…but the social science agrees that it is important. We have a total dearth of such brand promotion. Our brand gets published when someone else wishes to publish it for their own ends.
- Some might feel that making our project more visible specifically to bring in more interested developers (fresh, new, naive young nerds) is a waste of time. On the small scale, this is true. We get someone into the project, they make a big fuss, then they are gone. Poof. What a waste of time. Fine. On the other hand, if you attract 200 new developers, and just one of them contributes something meaningful, then gets snapped up by one of the contributing vendors and is putting out good stuff in perpetuum, how does 2k stack up? I have spent many years doing everything myself and discovering that it is killing me. Then I go through many years hiring and firing (and providing bail money), and then I switch back to a one-man shop. Every once in a while, someone good does come along. We don’t have to fire anyone. We don’t have to hire anyone. The wheat separates itself from the chaff. All we have to do is provide the job listing.
My question: Can we alter our advert periodically? If so, we can rig it to sometimes be re: OpenEMR news, sometimes promote OpenEMR events (wouldn’t mind having a pointer to a hacking session on that site), and sometimes a “Find Careers in OpenEMR” tag.
Brady Miller
10:26 PM (13 hours ago)
to Shameem, me, Art, David, Gregory, Jack, Kevin, Sam, Sena
Hi,
Two things.
-
Also agree to focus funds on development, since MU2 should get priority. If there is a 2 for 1 deal, perhaps some of the vendors can pay for their advertisements; and then the OpenEMR project could benefit from a “free”(in theory, at least) ad that would not cost OEMR anything.
-
Lets re-ignite OEMR and get a meeting going and get new members in. I’d be happy to volunteer for it and guessing I could get some more community members to also.
Tony McCormick tony@mi-squared.com
12:20 AM (12 hours ago)
to Brady, Shameem, Art, David, Gregory, Jack, Kevin, Sam, Sena
It would be good to remember that the OEMR’s mission as related to the project and as requested by development community, is to promote OpenEMR. If the first thing that we do this year is block some small efforts toward that mission we aren’t going to get very far.
You all know that I personally raised the bulk of the money to fund MU2 and Sam Bowen funded MU1 personally. I can’t do that again, if the OEMR needs to raise development money for openemr-org then we have to be known outside of our development community. OpenHealthNews is a tiny step in that direction. My hosting a booth at SXSW and next month with Columbia University at HIMSS are steps toward making the Project something beyond a backwater.
The vote stands, so far, at 3 for, 2 against 1 abstaining and 3 people that have not voted yet.
Brady’s opinion and indeed the opinion of the community matter in this, with the permission of the board I will publish this discussion on the Users forum and open it to the community.
NB: I am not (at all) discounting the volunteer efforts and vendor contributions of man power toward MU1 and MU2 by many, that is critical to maintain as well.
Shameem Hameed
6:51 AM (5 hours ago)
to me, Brady, Art, David, Gregory, Jack, Kevin, Sam, Sena
Yes, we can promote OpenEMR. Each of the Vendors who get so much business by being associated with OpenEMR should do that, This needs to happen without digging into the non-profit fund. I have already paid Roger $5000 for an advt, not because there is a lot of traffic that he drives but because he is happy to post the articles that I write about OpenEMR and BlueEHS. I intend to continue along those lines. We are positioning OpenEMR as the most popular open source ambulatory EHR (period).
Being on the Board of OpenEMR our actions should be guided by the principle of “Caesar’s wife not only being chaste but also being above suspicion.”
Kevin Yeh
7:23 AM (4 hours ago)
to me, Brady, Shameem, Art, David, Gregory, Jack, Sam, Sena
Spending money to improve OpenEMR’s visibility and to reach out to more users and developers is a good idea. The issue is that the proposed approach (“graphical link”) to an undetermined OEMR webpage is not a sufficiently formed idea. Repeating a prior unanswered question: “Where does the link off of OHN’s” site go? Does it just go to the OEMR home page with the donate link? Is it a “recruitment” pitch for developers to come work on the project? Is it a suggestion to come an try the application? Is the link on OHN’s website just the OEMR logo? Something else with text? What are anticipated “click through” and “conversion” rates? Are there other websites beside OHN that are worth considering, in addition/instead? How does this amount of money compare to OEMR’s cash reserves? Is this proposal really a “small effort”? Are OHN’s readers the best audience to target with these funds? Can we do any of the things Art proposed regarding ad content? Is a one month Ad on OHN specific to the next Hack-a-thon an option? Another audiences to consider are the students who are learning about OpenEMR. Here’s a half baked idea. How about a $2000 prize for the best code submission, (prototype feature, bug fix).
The devil is in the details.
My statements are not some sort of filibusterer to try and “block” progress toward “the mission.” They are concerns about this specific approach. Presumably yes votes from 2 of the 3 people who have not voted would still result in approval, so hopefully they will chime in either way.
I have no objections to continuing this discussion on the Users forum.
Art Eaton
8:34 AM (3 hours ago)
to Kevin, me, Brady, Shameem, David, Gregory, Jack, Sam, Sena
I agree with Kevin on many points, specifically
1. If it is a “graphical link” (what other than graphics ever appear on a screen?) then where does it connect to, and can it be updated/changed? I have no problem with a simple advert with enough content to accurately represent the product, but knowing where twenty weeks of grocery money is going up front would be good to know.
2. OEMR funding review would be nice. What better opportunity? I am sure we need a real agenda item occasionally (not that this isn’t one).
3. If we have 2k to spend, what about Kevin’s other suggestion? What about weekly prizes of 200 bucks for the best code submission? Kinda makes code review an immediate item of interest, bottom to top. That’s ten weeks of prizes! What better reason for someone to break up a big submission into ten clean sequential branches? Why not try to get prizes donated? I am sure Microsoft still has some leftover Surface RT’s in stock… These are things a non-profit BOD are supposed to be doing.
4. By all means, I approve of allowing this discussion to flow over into a forum, but we still need the business side handled outside of the direct effect of the free-for all. Decisions are nice outcomes vs. dying in committee.
Sam Bowen
9:01 AM (3 hours ago)
to Art, Kevin, me, Brady, Shameem, David, Gregory, Jack, Sena
I think advertising OpenEMR in general will help the entire project. OpenEMR suffers from a general lack of awareness in the general EHR community. Increasing visibility will attract more users. More users will attack both developers for the project and paying customers for the vendors. The more paying customers that the vendors get the more free stuff they will be willing to donate to the project. Everything is driven in a positive way by increasing public awareness.
So I would yes for advertising in OpenHealth News.
Sam Bowen, MD
Tony McCormick tony@mi-squared.com
11:41 AM (40 minutes ago)
to Kevin, Gregory, Sam, Brady, Sena, Shameem, David, Jack, Art
All excellent points Kevin and details that need to be worked out as well. This particular discussion is about whether to move forward on the idea of a supporting the OEMR through open health news as a venue through an ad. The "ad’ itself would just be a logo / graphic on the right side that would link back to OEMR.org, since this would be an OEMR.org funded ad. That main page needs so updates before we pull the trigger, no doubt.
OpenHealthNews is targeted at the industry, not at developers or even individual users but intended to make people that influence decisions about adoption aware that we exist at all.
*The vote stands, so far, at 4 for, 2 against 1 abstaining and 2 people that have not voted yet (and likely won’t, they being the lawyer and the accountant).